Lightly cleaned for readability. Some filler words and false starts removed.
Brian
Hey Lloyd, thanks for joining me today.
Lloyd
Thanks for having me.
Brian
Yeah, this is great. We've been talking about this for a while, so I'm glad we could connect. And full disclosure, we're doing this on company time, because I feel like this is a company call. You know what I mean?
Lloyd
Yes, it is. It is. So you know we're we're we're both ready. We've been looking forward to this.
Brian
All right. So I want to start before we even talk about recruiting and your career, I want to talk about growing up, your father's famous musician. tell us a little bit about that and and and some share some stories from from that era.
Lloyd
Well, he is a a Rock Roll Hall of Fame inductee from two thousand and one. He was lead singer with the Flamingos from nineteen fifty-three to nineteen sixty. if people remember the doowap era and they remember the song I Only Advise for You and also remember that song for recent movies, they'll know that that was him and his voice. From sixty to sixty-four, solo artist based in New York.
Brian
And the platters, that's only you, Smoke in Your Eyes, The Magic Touch, The Great Pretender. Yes. E every Marty Scorsese movie those songs seem to end up in.
Lloyd
Smoke gets in your eyes, yes. Yes, all of those. All of those. Yep, and and and De Niro's as well.
Brian
And did that did you travel around? Did you go to shows? like how did that influence you at a young age?
Lloyd
Well, we couldn't necessarily travel around because we were in school.
Lloyd
And so all the moves really happened as a result of where his work was concentrated. So I was born in New York, we lived in Philly for a little while, we moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and we moved up to New England. And so those moves all happened because of where he was working at the time.
Brian
Okay. Okay. And then so then you grew up in the New England area. how did you get into recruiting? And maybe what did you do before did you do anything before then before you got into to that area?
Lloyd
I graduated from college, Bryant University in in eighty-three. And so upon graduation, I already had work lined up in the hospitality industry in in the greater Boston area. And then saw pretty quickly that that was not a future that I wanted. So I had gone to a recruiting firm, and the recruiters talking to me and I'm answering questions. And then after that meeting, I thought,
Lloyd
And I always say, I always say in all seriousness, you can't measure heart. And that's real that's really what it comes down to. I have my theories, but the one that I stick with is you can't measure heart. You can't measure someone's desire to make it. You can't measure somebody who will do anything it takes, and not just not just the saying, but someone who actually believes it.
Brian
Right. That's Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think about that like like a pro sports. Pro sports is a good example of that. There's always a player or two number one pick overall, or this is a top ten, this is a camp miss, and then it doesn't work out. And then there's somebody who goes undrafted who who makes it. And it's true. It's the intangible no one can put their finger on.
Lloyd
I mean. Yes, it is. Yes, yes.
Brian
Yeah. And w what about so what is it about the recruiting space that you liked that made you wanna kind of plant your flag there and and make that into a career?
Lloyd
Well, at the time, really what it was was that I loved it.
Lloyd
and and that's a big deal with me to be able to stay engaged. And because of that, that's what helped me. On the other side of it, though, we didn't talk about my mother, but she was in sales in the 1970s at a time where husbands didn't want their wives to work.
Lloyd
And she built a 40-year career in Mary Kay Cosmetics. And and it wasn't just about selling products, it was about showing women how they could really grow amongst themselves and become a person that maybe they had dreamt that they wanted to become, but never had any real support to think they could get.
Lloyd
And so I always say that with with my siblings, we followed her much more so than we followed my dad.
Lloyd
we all had musical talent. none of us wanted to get involved in it. See, I saw I can't speak to my siblings, but what I saw was the dirty side of the music industry. And and I wanted no part of it. And I would still want no part of it because as I've gotten older I've learned even more of the dirt and the mess that goes on behind the scenes. Just did not interest me.
Brian
Gotcha. Gotcha. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then how do you go from the east coast? You end up out west. How does that move happen?
Lloyd
I was sick of Boston. and so I I packed up a car. My childhood buddy jumped in the front seat with me and we drove cross country, got to San Jose, California in six days. I had no job, but I knew where I was going. I knew San Jose, California was this place called Silicon Valley with a lot of companies. And with a lot of companies, I didn't know much. I thought I did, but I didn't know much.
Lloyd
But I knew there would have to be a recruiting opportunity for me somewhere. And I landed a position three weeks after I touched down in San Jose.
Lloyd
It was a it was a a recruiting firm that was technology based, of which I knew nothing about.
Brian
Okay. Okay. And it and this is this is a fur this is a agency. So this is a f firm that's hired go ahead.
Lloyd
Well, they consider themselves yeah, they consider themselves to be a recruiting firm rather than the agency level. so that was where I started and as I say
Lloyd
Am I glad I made the move? Yes. did I underestimate my ability? Excuse me, I overestimated my ability and underestimated the the road that you have to travel when you are uprooting your life and starting over. Because I only knew one person when I moved to San Jose. I didn't know anyone else. So I in effect had to start over. But it was better for me than staying in Boston.
Lloyd
Nowhere close. Everything was as manual as you probably imagine it. so you're talking about what people would now know as old school, having to having to find and create contacts, reaching out to them on the phone.
Lloyd
But it was it was grassroots, bare bones, reaching out to people you don't know to elicit interest in job opportunities that you had in your pocket.
Brian
Right. I I remember my first job out college being called at my desk by a recruiter about another opportunity. And it was like, How did you even how do you even know who I am? Like, how did you even find me? And how are we talking on the phone right now where, you know, you almost want to duck bel duck under your desk to have that to have that phone call? but that's what you're doing. You're calling
Lloyd
Mm-hmm. I can't share the details with you. Yeah, I can't share the details because I don't remember them much anymore. But I can tell you that there are always there have always been ways to find people. Always. And so there is a a tactic that used to be used all the time, which is pr rarely used now called sourcing. And so back then it was about how can you be as
Lloyd
Conniving as possible to source names.
Lloyd
'Cause I believe you never throw away a name.
Lloyd
And I don't try to understand it anymore. That's just the way that they do business, because they have resources that I didn't have. But at the time, resources I had is what I used.
Brian
Was it what year what years are we talking about here?
Lloyd
Talking about late eighties and early nineties.
Brian
Okay. Was it relatively easy to place people into tech companies? Was it where where were we early nineties? There was a little bit of a slowdown. but you're in Silicon Valley, which is growing and growing and growing. how was the business at that time?
Lloyd
Well, the business has always had peaks and valleys. and what I learned very early on, that should never be enough a factor in terms of the work you do. You forge ahead. So while a a marketplace may be slower than what someone desires, you put in the work, you can still make it happen. Most people in recruiting, the reason why they never made it.
Lloyd
Because they quit gave up too early. If you can just stick with it and hang in there, it has to work because what you're building, you're building clientele, you're you're building, as they say back in the day, the Rolodex, you're building contacts. And and so when you're working in an office with other people, that's a big factor too. You work with other people, they have contacts. This is how the synergy works.
Lloyd
Whether it's finding job openings or whether it's finding job talent. You didn't see a lot of people on their own at at at that time period, th the the very late eighties, but you know, it it evolved. And it certainly evolved in the nineties.
Brian
Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. So you you eventually get out of recruiting and go to well what did you do? After you leave recruiting, what did you do? And what when was that timeline?
Lloyd
I left recruiting in 2007. I had gone to I had gone to a legal firm where I live here in Las Vegas and I was going because of my real estate investment pursuits. And I was fascinated by the work they did because they they dealt with corporate structures, corporate compliance, asset protection as related to both the courtroom as well as the RRS. they helped
Lloyd
They helped these business owners develop business credit to separate the business wallet from the personal wallet. And they wrote real business plans. And they were involved in what people know of as a format of estate planning. And so I went to this company for the fact that I was getting involved in real estate. I was fascinated by the work.
Lloyd
And that was at the same time where I was about sick of recruiting because I had had such a long run. And what I saw in this particular legal firm was to be able to dive deeper into business. And I really wanted that. And so you know, maybe similar to how I started recruiting in the first place. I went in, I went in as a client. I I I asked about opportunities. The president
Lloyd
and founder of the company took a liking to me and I joined. And and I became managing partner of that legal firm during the seven year run that I was there.
Brian
What did you what was your role there? You obviously weren't an attorney.
Lloyd
No, I wasn't an attorney. I was an attorney in fact, as they call it, because we had attorneys on staff that that worked for me. I had five attorneys on my payroll. But what I was doing was I'm talking to people about corporate structures. Meaning corporations, LLCs, for folks who are setting up nonprofits for various reasons. The compliance. Without compliance, you don't have a corporate structure to protect you.
Brian
Okay. Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm.
Lloyd
And that's what the corporate veil is all about, is separating you from your business.
Lloyd
And and that was fantastic as well. And I got involved in helping these businesses create and form business credit so that people didn't destroy their own in a business that they still had to work and not all of them really understood that you can't let it crash. So how do you so how do you separate how do you separate the business world from your personal world? That's where business credit development came in and I took over that.
Lloyd
part that's probably the most satisfying for me, the founder of this company is known as one of a handful of experts in the area of asset protection in the country. And he's he's made it a point after the end of our business to let everybody know that he's the best that's out there. And he said that I was the second best.
Lloyd
And that's not an insult. Yeah, that it's not an insult at all, you know. the the the the business ended because when the rest of the country is going through recession in that tw that twenty eleven to thirteen time frame, Nevada was in the midst of a depression. Yeah, yeah. So even though we had clients in eighteen countries, it didn't matter. because still we were based in Vegas and the business dried up and
Brian
take that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Mm-hmm.
Lloyd
You only hang on for so long. So when that happened, I'm a good friend of mine still of over 30 years. We had worked together, but this time she placed me. And for that I had to move from Vegas back to Northern California. And she placed me with a little itty bitty company called AutoZone. The software division, the SAS division is called All Data, it's in the Sacramento area.
Lloyd
And and that led to a multi-year journey of corporate sales. No one ever thinks as recruiters as being salespeople, but the fact of the matter is we always were. In fact, harder because because the sales are two-sided, not a one-sided. And so and and so that gave me the experience in the whole world of of enterprise software. Starting with SaaS and then with cloud, moving from
Lloyd
From all data autozone to Oracle. And then moving from there to a startup that specialized in green energy initiatives for California and Florida homeowners. So I actually picked up the quote unquote traditional sales that people think of, but I already had it from recruiting. I just I just I just married them together. Now what's interesting about this is that where we work today.
Lloyd
In 2007, I met a gentleman by the name of Ron Nash. In 2007. So all these years later, we finally had a chance to work together. Yeah.
Brian
Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.
Lloyd
But I remember meeting him saying, Who is this? and I don't mean that in a negative. I mean it from the and I've never told him this. I meant it from the intimidation side. I just thought he was the sharpest tool I had seen in any shed.
Lloyd
And I just told myself that one day I was gonna have to work with them. And here we are. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian
And here here we are. Here we are. So so when you're in s so recruiting is a sales job because you especially when you were doing it, because you're cold calling, you're tr trying to con you're you're trying to convince someone to try something, right? Which is come along with me and I'll I'll let me put you in front of these people. and then you have to get them ready for, you know, this is your client, so you don't want to put anyone in front of them.
Lloyd
Right. Right. Yes, they did. They did. Because I had I had the building blocks. I had I had the building blocks for sales. And so to me the transition was not difficult.
Brian
Mm-hmm. Right. Right. I mean I gotta think recruiters, it's up there with you know, the phone being hung up on you, it's up there with a lot of jobs where you have to get someone on the phone.
Lloyd
I just w Well, well, listen, I used to tell people all the time, as a recruiter, we used to be hung up on 50 times a day. And that's not even an exaggeration. It was 50 times a day. At some point, if you don't get that thick skin, you'll never make it. But I don't believe you'll ever make it in any business. But that's usually that's usually what wears people down. The combination of being hung up on because they take it personally.
Lloyd
Plus the fact that they're not successful.
Brian
What do mean? Right. Right. Right.
Lloyd
Where did you fall short in the hundred and fifty steps?
Lloyd
One of the slaps in the face that I needed was the fact that I wasn't as good as I thought I was. And the first two years I failed at every turn you could think of. And as a result, I made a commitment that I was going to become a continual learner of my craft and not wait for any company to pay for it for me.
Lloyd
I wonder how much of that exists today, you know, but that's what I had to do. And ever since then I've been I've been a a sales nerd, an information nerd, a communication nerd. And it served me pretty well.
Brian
Yeah. Yeah, I think the industry gets a bad rap today. Maybe some of it self-inflicted deservedly so. I I once had a call for a position that was a no-brainer. I should have been the top candidate, if not a candidate. And in talking to the recruiter, you could tell she wasn't really paying attention to what I said. she was distracted. There was a lot of background noise, and then at one point,
Brian
She was like, hold on a sec, I'm switching trains. And it's like, okay, well, you're not l really listening to what I'm saying. If you're switching trains in the middle of a phone call, you're not whatever you're whoever you're talking to. and so, you know, I've had that experience. I've had the experience where the recruiter reaches out to you via email and then you respond and the you then you never hear from them again, which is always crazy.
Brian
I've had the experience of, you know, they don't know what the job is. They can't explain what the job is. so yeah, I've I've been through a few experiences where it's like, you know, these people aren't that good at it.
Lloyd
Well, I don't put all of it on the shoulders of the recruiters anymore. I I I I put the blame on these company managers and the ownership because they're not training and developing people. You can only do so much. and if you don't have if you don't have strong leadership and particularly strong mentorship, you're going to get the results that you had gotten and the experiences that you had.
Lloyd
I was fortunate, never I never worked for anybody who was even close to that. So when I hear it, yeah, yeah, we've got we've got recruiters that are not good. And the industry has regressed, in my opinion. But I put it more on the owners of these companies. They don't know anything. And so if they don't know anything, how can their respective teams know anything either? Because not everybody.
Lloyd
Not everybody has the gumption to reach out on their own and figure out what they don't know and learn it. So that's the way I look at this energy. Has it regressed? Absolutely. Absolutely. and and then the other part is just like what we talk about, language and positioning. It's amazing, it's amazing how ubiquitous that is in every industry, in every segment, no different than recruiting firms. And this is why what I share with people about.
Brian
Right. Right. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Lloyd
Is understand who you're speaking with. And and just because they reach out to you doesn't mean what they have to talk about is legit. When you come across someone that you know the lights are on, that have a level of higher narrative intelligence, that's who you stick with and that's who you work with.
Brian
Right. Mm-hmm. So then you correct me if I'm wrong, you got back into recruiting after doing corporate sales. How did that happen?
Lloyd
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I did. I did. while I still don't know why. my theory is because of the owner of the firm in the nineties that I was with, and we were the largest privately held accounting and finance specific search firm on the entire West Coast. He had sold the business, got back into the business, and I had a chance to to basically reun reunite with him.
Lloyd
And help him build a new business, which I did. And that's where I went back to. and it ran its course. And at that point I said to myself, I'm not doing any more recruiting. So a lady that I had hired during those days at this this accounting and finance search firm, she she left she left the corporate recruiting world.
Lloyd
And it took me about two seconds to say yes. Because that was the one piece of experience that I had did not have. I had everything else, never worked in a corporate environment. I joined that corporate environment and and I'm proud to say I was a lot better than they thought I was going to be.
Brian
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So what was that like? What was working at In Nvidia? What was what year what years were that and and what was that like?
Lloyd
Yeah. I I that was in 2022. I and then again in 2024. I enjoyed it because it was it was a new experience. So there I am back in a learning mode, which I always like. And a NVIDIA gave you the opportunity to use your brain. And where I use my brain was bringing concepts that I knew worked. And
Lloyd
had to had to show some people that yes this works in a corporate environment a corporate arena as well and you're just gonna have to trust me. I know that's bold but that's the way I felt. And we created success in a pretty short period of time. And so it would that was great. and Nvidia at the time they were just getting their momentum to the Nvidia they are today.
Lloyd
But they had momentum. the only difference was that if you called east of the Mississippi River, people wouldn't recognize what an NVIDIA was. That was the only difference. Great firm then, great firm now. it was it was fantastic with the run that we had. And then I had a chance to go back. Now it was not the role that I should have gone back to because it was not the work that I was doing before, and I only went back because it was NVIDIA. And you could I can construe that as a mistake.
Brian
Mm-hmm. Right. Right. How do you how
Lloyd
But the good news is is that I've got NVIDIA chops.
Brian
Sure, sure. So that's a company that like
Lloyd
Mm-hmm. Right. I I'll I'll tell I will
Lloyd
I underline the word struggled. So they hadn't gotten their their sea legs underneath them. Second, the vast majority of NVIDIA hires, and I believe it's still this way to to this day, unless it's a couple of specialized knowledge based talent, the people that they bring on board are contractors first.
Brian
Well they had a co th Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Lloyd
Not full time. So there are a lot of people who are afraid of that even still.
Brian
Okay. Yeah, that's a different conversation to have with someone.
Lloyd
It's a very different conversation. now I know that in in recent times where previously the concept of remote work was pretty strong and compelling at NVIDIA. I know in recent times they've been bringing people back into the office. So that that wears some of the luster off of people.
Brian
Yeah, that's not for ever it's not for every Mm-hmm.
Lloyd
within. It's not one of those where it's not one of those where sixty to ninety days you've got a down pat. No, no. And you know not everybody is prepared for that either. I I saw folks willed by the wayside as a result of
Lloyd
So reaching that point, I walked in confident.
Brian
Mm-hmm. Yeah. That and that's that's eighty percent of it.
Brian
is having that having that confidence. You know, my son's I don't think I've told you the story. My son's high school hired a new principal for this upcoming school year. And they had finalists and they brought the finalists onto campus and they had a you know question answer with parents
Lloyd
Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay.
Brian
of the finalists. So you got to meet all the finalists if you win. So I was talking to my son and he goes, can any of these candidates s stop someone from smoking in the bathroom? And I and I n and when I thought about it that way, I was like, you know what? There is one candidate I think who could. And my dad was like, Well then I hope that's the guy we get.
Lloyd
Yeah. I was told I I was told that when I joined NVIDIA that someone went to my boss and said, He's been here a week and he's walking around here like he actually knows people and knows things. And she said, Yeah, that's Lloyd. Because I didn't wait for any Brian Brian, I didn't wait for anybody to introduce me to anybody. I I knew three names and I
Brian
And I think Could see that. Mm-hmm.
Lloyd
Reached out to the people I knew I'd be working with and say, you know, so and so hired me. you know, I've heard there this is who you are. I'm coming to introduce myself and understand how I can support you. What was I gonna wait for? And so, but but but it it it was a surprise. It was a surprise to people in NVIDIA. I had done that at all data autozone and really made a stink.
Brian
Yeah. Yeah. Of course. It'll never happen if you wait. Mm-hmm.
Lloyd
when I did that. But it works. Because because from my days with the legal firm, the founder of that company said something very prophetic. They can't eat you.
Lloyd
And and as and as goofy as that is, boy is it true. You know? In the corporate environment's the worst someone can say to you is no. Across the board in life. Across the board in life. And and what people need to understand is you don't have time to be shy. We're adults now. We're grown. There's no time to be a shy adult. There's no time to beat around the bush. And at the same time, it's inexcusable to be obnoxious.
Brian
Totally. Totally. Mm-hmm.
Lloyd
So can you just talk to people like a real person? Can you just do that? Seems to be easier said than done. And that's all I did.
Brian
Right. Right. Right. So we work with people who are looking for new careers, searching for a new job, looking to up level. And what would you what do you think is the biggest struggle that people have when they are searching for that next opportunity?
Lloyd
There's a bunch of them, but I'll keep the list short. The first place is the fact that we are operating in what I've called the twenty-first century hiring market. This is not the 20th century hiring market that the people we work with have grown up in, and neither did we. What was successful up to about 2023 no longer works. We work with a gentleman who I th I thought he put it best.
Lloyd
He used he used an an OS analogy. You've got people who they're still hanging on to the fact that their resume says they've got 25 years, 30 years, 22 years, and they think that that should be the ticket to walk in the door. Well, the fact is everybody else has that too. And so they don't have a strategy for this 21st century market. If you don't have a strategy, you don't have a plan. If you don't have a plan, then you have nothing to execute. That's the number one problem.
Lloyd
What you have achieved, where I can look at that and project whether you can help us. I know companies didn't speak like that in years past, but they do now. And the market has not adjusted at all. The market has not adjusted to the fact that senior-level talent fall over themselves without articulating clearly clearly the problems they solve. people
Lloyd
and and so you hear this pushback of well that that sounds pushy, it sounds salesy, it sounds pompous. Well, you're wrong in all three. If you don't champion yourself, who will?
Lloyd
There's five of them. And so in in my role at GHN, I have to address all three of those areas with every single person that walks in the door. And every single person walks in the door needs work in all three areas. We have not seen one that has walked in the door ready made and ready to go, which is part of their problem. That's the there's other things that we could get into, but if you can't conquer that on the front end.
Lloyd
There is no back-end ideal next position for you. Now there may be an what the hell? Let me take this job because I need one.
Lloyd
But the ideal next role, you'll never get it if you don't work on clarifying your positioning, establishing a go-to-market strategy which spells out your brand, and and really being able to speak to a company about what matters to them.
Brian
Absolutely. Absolutely. We had a go go ahead. Yeah. We had a former member of our group who and he was a guest on this podcast. He basically based on a friend's suggestion, said I'm a product guy. I'm sitting in these interviews telling people I'm a product guy. He's like, Maybe I should just start showing them that I'm a product guy.
Lloyd
And and that's where it starts.
Brian
And so he starts playing around with new AI tools, starts posting it online, posting on YouTube, puts a little short into his LinkedIn profile. All of a sudden he has like this content that he's building. And I asked him when he did land a new gig, I said, Did they ask you about your videos in the interview? And he was like, Did they ask me? That's all we talked about. And so here's a guy that creates some content, makes it interesting.
Lloyd
And and I'll even add to that, Brian. I still think that he should have been prepared for the problem him as a problem solver and what companies actually call your superpower and and showing companies' achievement because that still matters. Now he may not have touched on it as overtly as we prepare people, but covertly it still had to come up.
Brian
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Lloyd
even in those sessions. It's it had to. And so what he did was circumvented a bit with the approach that he took. and so I'm glad he landed what he wanted. And I will also say I think he was fortunate to get what he landed because companies are are are are getting tougher and tougher in the interview stage, particularly when it comes to AI dialogue.
Brian
It still probably came up, sure. Sure. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's changing so rapidly from tell me what you know about AI of six months ago to tell me what you've built with it and how you've built it and what that was all about. And it's amazing how many tech folks struggle with that.
Brian
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I believe that. I believe that. I there there's a handful of comp more than a handful, but there's a group of companies that just lay offs happen and that's what they do. And then there's the vast universe, like you said, where they don't want nobody wants that. They just want people to be more productive. They want to use the tools to their advantage.
Lloyd
So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yep, and and unfortunately, and it's always been this way, everyone's starry eyed about the big brand name.
Brian
It makes all the headlines.
Lloyd
This is this and and this is why I was fortunate being in NVIDIA when I was, because the the big brand name is not always what you think it is when you join them. And the good news was particularly that first go round with me at NVIDIA, it was that and more. Yeah.
Brian
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. all right, we've gone a little bit over time, so I'm gonna end it right there. But Lloyd Nelson, thank you so much for joining me. This has been great. Now we gotta go back to work now.
Lloyd
Okay. No, thank you for having me. This has been exactly. Have a great one.
Brian
All right, you two.